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Posted by on Feb 13, 2014 in Blog, Restaurant Reviews | 13 comments

Whining About Tipping

 

wine-bottles

 

This article is about tipping.  When to tip.  When not to tip.  And how much.

It’s also about tipping protocol in what one might call “extenuating circumstances.”

 

The last few times I dined out at fancy restaurants, this very subject came up.

There’s actually some debate as to how much of a tip to leave when a wine is served, particularly when the bottle ordered is very expensive.

Before going into considerable detail, let’s agree on a few facts.  The customary tip for service in any restaurant is somewhere between 15 to 20 percent.  Perhaps a little higher, if you’re dining alone and/or received exceptional service.

But what about when you order a $50 bottle of wine?  Or, a $100 bottle?  Or, a $500 bottle?  How much should you tip on a $1,000 bottle?  And finally, what about those elite wine drinkers who order $10,000 bottles of wine?  Don’t tell me the expected tip is always 20 percent across-the-board.  It can’t be.  Can it?

I’ve enjoyed many $100 bottles over the years.  But I rarely order anything more expensive than that, mainly because:  (1) I can’t afford it, and (2) If I really want to buy something special, it will something that isn’t marked up three times the retail price.  So, when I order a bottle that costs $100, the extra twenty percent or so ($20) isn’t a big deal.  So, I just tack it on to the total bill.

However, on some occasions, the people I’ve dined with ordered bottles costing several hundred dollars.  I confess — I like to hang out with those kinds of people.  So, what should you tip when the meal for four people comes to $400 and the wine is another $400?  Should you tip 20 percent of the grand total, which would be $160?  Or, should you tip based on the food alone, and then tack on a flat corking fee for serving the wine, which seems to make a lot more sense?

By the way, just for the sake of argument, let’s leave out wine stewards and sommeliers, which is a different question altogether.  We’ll just assume it’s a nice evening out, with the waiter presenting and pouring the wine.

Most people in the service business insist the industry standard is always 20 percent, no matter want.  Trouble is, I’m not sure I really believe that.  Call me cynical, but I suspect waiters and bartenders might be biased.  Note:  It’s worth noting that by law, servers must declare a certain percentage of tips based on total sales (including wine), which does make their opinion considerably more persuasive.

Frequent fine diners I asked were split right down the middle.  Some insist that if you can afford a $500 bottle of wine, the extra $100 tip isn’t such a big deal.  But some really serious wine people that I trust firmly insist that wine should be served accompanied a sort of flat service fee, usually between $20 and $50 per bottle.  Of course, if you order a $40 bottle, the tip is easy.  It’s 20 percent ($8), plain and simple.

An article in The Wall Street Journal (one of the few authorities on this question) also happened to see the debate both ways.  Part of the article made a strong case for tacking on the full 20 percent for wine, while there were dissenting viewpoints that the tip should be much less, based on common sense.

Now, let’s move on.  Next, we’ll shift the question to poker.

Obvious parallels exist between the wine question and what should be tipped out at a live poker table.

Let’s say you win a typical hand.  That means, raking in a modest-sized pot that’s pretty much forgotten once it’s over.  The customary tip for the dealer is probably a dollar or two.  At least, that’s the common poker tip here in Las Vegas poker rooms.

But let’s say you sit down in a poker game and win a massive pot.  Making this easier to understand, let’s imagine you start the hand with $1,000 in chips and win a three-way pot.  That means you made around $2,000 in profit in what amounts to about five minutes.  How much would you tip?

To be clear, the work by both dealers was about the same.  The modest-sized pot and the massive pot required almost equal time and skill.  The same number of cards were pitched, and the hand took about the same duration to play out.  Is the dealer entitled to more money simply because the pot is bigger?

I think most of us would toss the dealer a few extra chips in that situation, as a sort of feel-good bonus.  I certainly would.  But let’s not get too carried away about tipping, either.  You might just lose that same $2,000 back (or more) on the very next hand.

Extending this discussion out into the casino pit, if you were to hit a slot jackpot, or let’s say you’re dealt a royal flush on a video poker machine, it’s likely that your winnings will be paid out by hand.  That means a slot cashier comes to you and pays your winnings in cash (this is for tax reasons, by the way).  If I win a $4,000 payout on a video poker machine (which is the typical payoff of single-line play on a $1 machine), how much should the tip be?  What if you’re stuck $2,000 before hitting the four-grand win?  Does that change things?  What if you’re stuck $6,000 before hitting the jackpot?  Should you even tip at all?

Wine.  Poker.  Slots.  I really don’t know the answers.

I suppose — to use the old poker axiom about making the right decision — it depends.

Readers, what do you think?

Here’s the quick quiz, if you want to cut and paste.  How much to tip for proper service on:

1.  $1,000 bottle of wine

2.  $10,000 bottle of wine

3.  $100 poker pot (profit)

4.  $2,000 poker pot (profit)

5.  $4,ooo video poker jackpot (profit)

6.  $4,000 video poker jackpot (profit = $2,000)

7.  $4,000 video poker jackpot (but still a $2,000 loser)   

13 Comments

  1. disclaimer…i probably will never order that bottle of wine but..
    1. $1,000 bottle of wine—20-40 bucks
    2. $10,000 bottle of wine…outside my realm, maybe 100
    3. $100 poker pot (profit)–1 buck
    4. $2,000 poker pot (profit)…couple bucks..no more than 5
    5. $4,ooo video poker jackpot (profit)–10
    6. $4,000 video poker jackpot (profit = $2,000)…maybe 5-10
    7. $4,000 video poker jackpot (but still a $2,000 loser)…nothing

  2. 1. $1,000 bottle of wine = 10% and it better be really good

    2. $10,000 bottle of wine = 10% and it better be really fucking good!

    3. $100 poker pot (profit)= local standard

    4. $2,000 poker pot (profit)= $5

    5. $4,ooo video poker jackpot (profit)= $0

    6. $4,000 video poker jackpot (profit = $2,000)=$0

    7. $4,000 video poker jackpot (but still a $2,000loser)= $0

    With wine, I would say that once the standard 20% goes above $50 you switch to 10% with a minimum of $50.

    With poker it all evens out, don’t overtip and don’t undertip — $5 is my standard tip anytime I win more than a rack of chips (assuming the game is played with red chips).

    If it’s a green chip game I tip 1 green chip for any win of more than a rack, and I probably buy dinner… probably.

    Video Poker = $0. I’m playing a solitary -EV game and you had no direct influence on any part of the game and you will have zero contact with me in the future. the cashier is like an ambulance chaser who shows up without prompting looking to make money. I wouldn’t feel bad about not tipping them

  3. I tip dealers on the heavy side. I think they work way too hard for their money. Mostly from putting up with idiots that throw cards, insults, etc. I hate folks that don’t tip dealers and find them the scum of the earth.

  4. 1. $1,000 bottle of wine— Spirits are tipped based on quality of service, not percentage of purchase. When you start getting into the $200 + range, I tend to tip 5% of the price, up to 9% if I really enjoyed the experience and the knowledge was clear. Keep in mind this comes from someone who came from the service industry management and ownership. There is an exception to this rule, my suggestion is not the norm in nightclubs. In a nightclub the gratuity is typically 15% on the low end to 22% on the high end. I have seen some waiters disagree with this, if I caught one of my staff members disrespecting a customer over a service quality based tip for a bottle of wine then that waiter might not have a job anymore if it continues after a warning.
    2. $10,000 bottle of wine – When you enter the stratosphere you can start to lower the tip. A $500 tip is acceptable, $800 very generous. If you can afford a 10k bottle of wine, you can afford $500 tip.
    3. $100 poker pot (profit)– $1
    4. $2,000 poker pot (profit) – $1
    5.$10,00 poker pot – $1
    6. $50,000 poker pot – $1
    6. Saw a flop in a limped pot and you won nothing more than the big blind – $1

    3-6 are important to note that it is socially and morally acceptable to tip $1 for every pot where there is a flop regardless of size, this should result in frequent tipping which counteracts the effects of those who only tip when they win a large pot. This is true in both USA as well as through Europe where a tip in a poker game is generally considered only in large pots. The size of the pot is only relative to your own perspective, you would not expect a 4k/8k player to tip $5 when they saw the flop in a 3 way pot with a single raise preflop that was won after he CBet the flop. With that said, I typically add to that dollar as I see fit based on the quality of the dealer and the action I am getting – not the size of the pot, I have been known to toss $25 at a dealer before for being exceptional, its best to start with a series of basic policies and then adjust accordingly.

  5. Nolan, you confessed that you like to hang out with people who order bottles that cost several hundred dollars. Do you pitch in for the cost or are you just mooching like you do when you play at the expensive golf courses.
    dc

    NOLAN REPLIES: I mooch on any occasion I can. Then again, those who pay get to mooch off my charm and wisdom. So, it’s a push.

  6. I tip the dealer the same amount every time regardless of pot size. The dealer does no more on a big pot than a small pot, right? So if we agree on a $20 “fee” for dealing a bottle, then we should pay $528 on a $500 bottle of wine, and $28 on an $8 bottle of wine. Anything else requires thinking which doesn’t include logic.

    🙂

  7. 1. $1,000 bottle of wine

    Will never happen, but let’s say $50.

    2. $10,000 bottle of wine

    Will never ever happen. $100 seems fair.
    20% is completely insane. $2000???? For what? Crazy.

    3. $100 poker pot (profit)

    $1. I’ve tipped $1 on pots where I had a $2 profit.

    4. $2,000 poker pot (profit)

    $5

    5. $4,000 video poker jackpot (profit)

    $40

    6. $4,000 video poker jackpot (profit = $2,000)

    Probably still $40, but maybe $20.

    7. $4,000 video poker jackpot (but still a $2,000 loser)

    $20 seems right.

  8. Without looking at other responses:

    1. $1,000 bottle of wine

    $50

    2. $10,000 bottle of wine

    $100

    3. $100 poker pot (profit)

    $2

    4. $2,000 poker pot (profit)

    $5

    5. $4,ooo video poker jackpot (profit)

    $60

    6. $4,000 video poker jackpot (profit = $2,000)

    $60

    7. $4,000 video poker jackpot (but still a $2,000 loser)

    $60

  9. Our youngest daughter spend a decade in this racket — ended up as manager of a huge, six-story events complex in Manhattan. Tips were her life-blood and she learned early on that when some guy with a pinky ring says “Comm’ere gorgeous, you wuz amazing and tanks for ev’ryting” and slips something onto your palm do not open your hand till you are back in your office.
    Ten years of this drove her to where she is now: working with traumatic brain injured patients and homeless women. She is very happy.

  10. 1. $1,000 bottle of wine–somewhere between $50 and $100 assuming the waiter doesn’t screw up the opening or pouring.

    2. $10,000 bottle of wine–maybe $150-$200. just because one order a $10k bottle doesn’t mean they’re loaded, esp in vegas. there’s a chance it could be comped.

    3. $100 poker pot (profit)–$1
    4. $2,000 poker pot (profit)–$1
    5. $4,ooo video poker jackpot (profit)–$0
    6. $4,000 video poker jackpot (profit = $2,000)–$0
    7. $4,000 video poker jackpot (but still a $2,000 loser)–$0

    this country and especially this city are getting to the point where the service industry feel they’re entitled to tips regardless of the level of service. nightclubs that charge a 20% tip on top of the $600 bottle of vodka are nuts. if theory, you can have them remove the tip as it’s illegal in nevada (and now the whole country) for restaurant to automatically tack on gratuity.

    when hitting a slot jackpot, the slot attendants that pay you are doing their job. unless they do something special such as pay you extraordinarily quickly or something like that they don’t deserve a penny.

    if poker dealers deal about 30 hands/hour and get an average of $1/pot that’s not a bad living considering the skill level needed.

  11. 1. $1,000 bottle of wine ($100)

    2. $10,000 bottle of wine ( $1000 )

    3. $100 poker pot (profit) ($1)

    4. $2,000 poker pot (profit) (S1)

    5. $4,ooo video poker jackpot (profit) (0)

    6. $4,000 video poker jackpot (profit = $2,000) (0)

    7. $4,000 video poker jackpot (but still a $2,000 loser) (0)

    The wine tips actually depends. Are you getting it with Dinner? If so, then a flat 20% on the total. IF your willing to to tips 20% on a $40 bottle, why should it be different if its a $1000 bottle? ( disclaimer: I have never paid more than $40 for a bottle of wine at a restaurant. I love wine, but cannot afford more. I need to find friends like yours!)

  12. Tips are: to con the consumer, who is already paying, or to get service when you are being extorted for tips, unless tips make up lack of minimum wage. Tips are: fro when you win, if you want to tip, but later when you need it, who is giving you a tip? Tip’s are for good time charlies to give, and if the merchant is not or cannot pay the wages of their employee, it is a wonder why they have such prices for you play a tip.

    I would avoid where they need a tip, like the Waffle House unless I have the tip available for them. The tip only makes up for wages the employer is not paying or is your decision because it is futile gesture anyway. If one business needs a tip for their employees, it is a good idea where they don’t bug you for a tip, unless the tip is to obtain a service or loyalty to have a successful event. If you don’t give the tip, they will skip you? Most proper only when obligatory for their deficit wages, a gift not a tax.

  13. Tips are: to con the consumer, who is already paying, or to get service when you are being extorted for tips, unless tips make up lack of minimum wage. Tips are: fro when you win, if you want to tip, but later when you need it, who is giving you a tip? Tip’s are for good time charlies to give, and if the merchant is not or cannot pay the wages of their employee, it is a wonder why they have such prices for you play a tip.
    I would avoid where they need a tip, like the Waffle House unless I have the tip available for them. The tip only makes up for wages the employer is not paying or is your decision because it is futile gesture anyway. If one business needs a tip for their employees, it is a good idea where they don’t bug you for a tip, unless the tip is to obtain a service or loyalty to have a successful event. If you don’t give the tip, they will skip you? Most proper only when obligatory for their deficit wages, a gift not a tax.

    But it is a subject for the wealthy, who do not want to appear ignorant and base in respect to the tip protocol.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. On Tipping: Tapped Out and Pissed Off | Nolan Dalla - […] I don’t mind tipping. […]
  2. A Nation of Tip Jars | Nolan Dalla - […] READ:  Should we eliminate tipping? […]

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